Interview With Asia Bribiesca-Hedin

Interview Transcript

Ivna 0:04 

Hi, I see it’s so nice to have you here, it’s going to be wonderful, I’m sure you have plenty of tips to share with our audience.

Asia 0:15 

I am so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me, I’m looking forward to this conversation. Given the kind of work and empowerment space we both work in, I think it’s going to be a good one. So, I’m looking forward to it.

Ivna 0:29 

Wonderful. So let me introduce you guys. Asia is the founder of the bad boss breakthrough initiative and the Bridgewell Professional services.

And today, she’s going be sharing with you guys a few tips on how to make effective requests, the dangers of people pleasing, which I talk about all the time.

And really interestingly, this concept of how you become the CEO of your own career, so tons today.

She’s also a leadership and empowerment expert, professional coach, and speaker. She coaches accomplished professionals who are ready to be fully recognized for their contributions, you can find her on LinkedIn or on her website, bridgewell.com.

Let’s get started. And I usually love asking people that I talk to, I asked her as well, what are some of the assertive moments and stories that you’ve had in your career?

Because that’s always something that can help inspire people who maybe feel like they they’re scared of being assertive, or something might go wrong. And it helps openning up that conversation within professional group.

Asia 1:47 

Absolutely. Actually, what comes to mind? Yes, many years ago, I was somewhat new to this rather large organization. I was doing a fantastic job on this initiative.

That was, for all intents and purposes, probably the highest profile initiative going on in that part of the company. And given that I’ve done a great job, I was working for a fantastic Senior Vice President, had been recommended that I go ahead and talk to him about questions relating to careers and mentorship, that he was a fantastic resource for all of this.

Now, as it is already, you know, I was feeling uncomfortable with the idea of reaching out, but I thought I need to start to get comfortable in this kind of space, and making requests.

And just putting myself out there, to engage with people in a way that hopefully can continue to support my career, and my ability to contribute.

I reached out my made an appointment, and he was just absolutely fantastic, and made time to meet with me. And so I go to his office, and we have a conversation. And really, my key question was around these are the kinds of functions and things that I really, really love doing and that I want to lean into even more. I want more of an opportunity to do this kind of work.

And then of course, like everybody else, wanted to do less of the more day to day work, that’s also a part of it.

We talked for a couple of minutes, and then his advice to me was, “people often come to me telling me what it is that they want to do next, or what they’re most interested in. But sometimes they’re already in the position that they should be in. And that’s the right place for them.”

So I was, of course, kind of taken aback by that type of advice, because essentially, he was telling me, “Don’t aspire to more, you’re fine where you are. Don’t aspire to more, don’t go anywhere.”

Now granted, in all fairness, I was leading his initiative. So were I to pivot and go elsewhere, it could potentially have impacted him and the success of this initiative, which ended up being huge.

But the bottom line is, and I think where the assertiveness really comes in, beyond the actually asking and having the conversation is being able to recognize that not every piece of advice is worthwhile.

And I feel like that’s the piece that almost took me longer in my career to recognize that my input and my perspective is more valid than necessarily what I’m receiving from experts or anyone else out there.

I love the input, right? I love that kind of interaction. I loved it to hear other people’s perspective.

But not everyone is going to have the same desire to see us pursue the path that we see for ourselves, right? We hopefully see for ourselves everything magnificent, that’s possible.

And we can’t necessarily expect other people no matter how well meaning they might be to hold that same aspirational view of us. Because sometimes they don’t, sometimes they don’t have it of themselves.

So I think a big part for me of assertiveness is recognizing that my value is not dependent on someone else recognizing it, but on me owning it. So hopefully that helps. But that’s immediately what came to mind when he asked that question.

Ivna 5:47 

This is such a phenomenal example, because it brings three different aspects of assertiveness. You need to know what you want. And you need to believe in yourself to ask for something.

And women are known, especially professional women, corporate women, to not really go after or not work on highly strategic projects as much as men.

And to transition into middle and upper management is really a lot about more of that strategic side of things and having that strategic exposure.

And what you did was you went out, you went out there, you said, “I deserve this. I want more strategic work,” because you knew that was important to you. So that awareness and that willingness to go out there, and go, and ask for it, and fight for that I think was phenomenal. And

specially, because that’s really what can help elevate women beyond that entry level management position, the strategic side of things.

Asia 6:57 

I absolutely agree. And I think the other side of it, since you brought up that point about being strategic is I believe very strongly, there’s something I teach to my clients called the big six career success levers.

And the reason I call them that is because they have this inordinate positive impact on your career, when you focus attention and effort there, versus where you might be focusing it, and you’re kind of just spinning your wheels.

You’re giving up your nights and weekends, but nothing is happening. So one of those levers, though, again, speaking about strategy is alignment with your Enterprise’s strategy.

And I think that’s so incredibly important when you are going to make requests, which you’d mentioned a little bit ago, to understand how that request fits in with your, your department. And then of course, with your organization, and then ultimately, with your career objectives.

Because the hardest challenge you’re going to create for yourself, when you’re not aware of where you fit in the grand scheme of things, is that you then can’t articulate how you directly add value and contribute to those things that are of the highest importance of priority to the organization.

And you always want to know that right? We never want to be in a situation where we don’t know where we are, as it relates to an organization’s strategic plan, a department’s future intentions are their highest priorities, we want to know exactly where we are, we want to know exactly how we contribute.

And we want to know if we even want to be along for that ride. What if you don’t want to be along for the ride, right? When they take that big strategic pivot down a different direction. And that’s not what you went there for.

So I’m just a big advocate of always knowing where your organization is, and how you fit in and how you want to fit in, because that’s the opportunity, to maybe even find a little niche for yourself and decide, what I see this as coming.

This is the way that I can retool or upskill or elevate my perspective, so that I’m really capable of contributing in this new environment. Everybody else is still kind of grinding the old way. And I’m already able to have the conversation at this new next level that the organization is trying to get to. So enterprise strategy. Everyone. Always have it.

Ivna 9:23 

So many great things about what you said. And I remember talking to someone who, recently, their company was going through a restructuring, like you said, and they’re moving, they’re changing a little bit their vision.

And this person thought, “You know what, I want to be the go to person on this new thing.” Like you said on that direction, that new direction, and on a specific segment of it. “I want to be the go to person for that” when they didn’t have any background on that.

But like you said, it’s only when you are aligned and you understand what the strategy is, what the vision of the company is, and how you want to fit into that, is that you can decide if you want to look for another job, or if you want to try to get yourself into one of those areas or initiatives or whatever it is, e.g. projects. So absolutely.

Asia 10:15 

What you’re saying, also is actually kind of what I’m alluding to when I refer to the CEO of your career.

You’re right, it’s not about having the title get to the highest level, what I mean very deliberately when I say that is being the chief strategist and the head decision maker for all things.

Because no one is more invested, or has more desire, or has an opportunity to make more of an impact through our lives and our careers than we do.

In that sense, we definitely don’t want to catch ourselves off guard and kind of just along for the ride, wherever the organization is taking us or wherever that next boss or next client takes us.

We want to be the ones that are the path and redirecting that GPS to where we want to go not simply along for wherever that next destination happens to be, and just hope that it happens to be a place we also can thrive and want to contribute.

So definitely, being the CEO of your career, the head decision maker of any sort of initiative, it really starts with understanding what you want.

What’s important to you, what’s your Northstar? How does this fit in? What are your guideposts and your boundaries? And what are you willing and not willing to sacrifice? What are you willing to say no to in order to be able to say yes to what it is you actually want?

This is one of those concepts I talked about, which is making decisions in advance because that’s all a strategic plan is if you think about it.

All it is, is an organization or a group or a community deciding in advance, what’s important to them, why, who they’re there to serve, and what their primary means of providing that value is going to be.

But we need to be able to answer that write for ourselves. Because when we get those sometimes off the wall requests or opportunities or those unexpected challenges, it’s that alignment with that Northstar of reminding ourselves, “okay, this is why I’m in it. And yeah, this totally moves me in that direction or no, this totally move me away from that direction. And is that okay?”

Right, but at least whatever decision we’re making, it’s not by happenstance, it’s on purpose. It’s with that smart, intentional, prefrontal cortex that’s helping us make those awesome decisions, because we see what’s possible for ourselves, or at least we hope, what’s possible for ourselves, and we’re willing to go after it.

Ivna 13:11 

That’s absolutely right. And I and I think I have this impression, that it is a very small percentage of people and professionals that are actually being that intentional about their careers.

And being strategic about their careers and thinking through it, not just letting the circumstances pave the way. In being decisive around what they want as well. I think I think very few people actually do that and take a step back and take the time to understand what it is that they want.

And that should be a January 1 planning for everyone.

Asia 14:00 

You’re absolutely right. It should be and you don’t need be a strategist to ask yourself these questions. To ask, “what’s most important to me? And why? How do I want to add value? In what ways do I want to work, some of the industries I’ve been and we say, top of licensed.”

We want to contribute at the top of our ability and always be in that stretch mode. And in what ways do I want to be in a real level of comfort and in confidence about what I’m doing.

But it doesn’t really matter the format that you use. With my clients, I use a specific format, because again, my background being a strategy execution, I really lean on that direction.

But whatever format you use, if it’s putting on sticky notes, what’s most important to you, why, and how you’re going to go about contributing it that way or making those decisions. Or what specific type of tasks and endeavors you want to take on to make that happen?

Do it on sticky notes, or if it is typing it in your phone, do it in your phone. But whatever it is, you just do it, because it’s that decision making process that gives us that clarity.

Because I think last time that we talked, I’d made a reference, when you think about it, seldom do we ask ourselves, what do I want other than when it’s related to food?

I always know what I want. I always know that, but I have to be really deliberate and intentional to understand what I want for my career, what I want for my life, what I want for my impact, because, ultimately, I’m big on impact, because I really am the chief executive and decision maker for the impact that I’m here to make, whether it’s professionally, whether it’s for the people in my family, whether it’s for my community, whether it’s for my cause.

That’s it. I’m it. So if I’m not deliberate? Who’s going to be deliberate about my impact?

Someone might be deliberate, but they might take in the wrong direction. Because, of course, they know what their impact is. And they’ll just bring you along for the ride.

Ivna 16:23 

And you mentioned something that in last time we talked, and it’s something that really can negatively affect our ability to really understand what we want, and be strategic about our career, and implement it in a way that is aligned with that plan, or that strategy that we have for ourselves or as the CEO of our career, which is people-pleasing. Such a problem!

Asia 16:53 

Yes, it is! And I’ve got to say, definitely forgive me, I am absolutely generalizing. Because some of these things we know about certain populations, it’s just a generalization doesn’t apply to everyone. And yet, I see it all the time.

That we as women tend to be people pleasers.

There is, understandably, just as human beings. We want to be aligned with what others want. We want to feel like there’s agreement, we don’t want to feel like there’s conflict or pressure there. And as a result because our roles traditionally have been, in many cases, the bond some people would say, the moms or the women in the family, or the heart of the family, things like that.

We’ve taken that role very seriously.

But now as our roles and families and our communities have evolved, we can be that and stand for what’s actually important to us.

There’s no longer a need to agree simply to agree. Unless that’s actually what we believe in.

The challenge with people pleasing is that it’s almost so engrained sometimes that we feel like we are just losing our minds, when we think that someone is unhappy with us.

When someone’s angry with us or annoyed with us.

If you can think back to a moment where this happens. But sometimes it even happens when for those of you who cook, you might have put together this nice special little meal, and your family or significant other or kids don’t acknowledge it, and don’t say anything about it.

We’ll go crazy on that end, but on the other end we bring that stuck with us into work. And we think that we’re not allowed to acknowledge our own value, the magnificence of whatever it is we just delivered, served on the table, or presented to the client.

Until we first hear it said to us from someone out there.

Isn’t that fascinating that it almost doesn’t matter who, but so long as we get the validation from out there first, then we give ourselves permission to say, “Yeah, I did a good job. I knocked it out of the park.”

What I’m proposing is that we flip that when you have a Northstar, when you know what’s important to you, when you know what your priorities, your capabilities, and your values are and how you intended to contribute.

When you are aligned, when you knocked it out of the park and you don’t need to wait for someone to tell you, “You knocked it out of the park.”

That’s unfortunate that we don’t see that more readily.

We often hold our breath. And I’ll tell you just speaking for myself, this takes me back another few years as well.

Again, another large initiative, I just held this fantastic accelerated solution design session, which was new to this environment. Now, keep in mind, they brought me in because of my background as a management consultant. And after the session, I’d gotten all sorts of positive feedback and some kind of glowing and buzzing and excited and proud, all those things.

And my boss’s boss had actually come and approached me and talked about how great it was.

And they even talked to her about how great it was. So when she called me into her office, a few hours after the session, I’m kind of buzzing with excitement, because I’m like, “Yeah, she’s about to give me the Nobel Peace Prize, because I brought all those different intentions and agendas together and how to agree on a path forward,” which, if you’ve ever worked with more than a handful of leaders in one room, that’s quite an endeavor.

And I got to tell you, I wish I could say it happens every time. It does not happen every time, this was a real success.

I walk into her office, and as opposed to getting a Nobel Peace Prize, what she said, looking a little uncomfortable and upset was, “Next time, you’re going to try a new approach, I want you to run it by me first.”

And that was it. There wasn’t a thanks or anything like that associated with that.

There was no Nobel Peace Prize.

Asia 21:35 

And at first, I was so caught off guard, because again, it was not at all what I was expecting, kind of felt like the wind got knocked out of me. But then, of course, I caught myself, because I realized, I knew I’d knocked it out of the park, the participants felt that it was a worthwhile experience.

And when do you have somebody in a three-hour session who feels like it was worthwhile, right. And the enterprise was getting what they needed and more as a result of the session. So I knew that it was awesome.

But for a second, I was going to let my acknowledgement of my own contribution and value and even worth hinge on whether my boss was also going to acknowledge that I did a great job.

That made it just a really apparent that having the awareness that seeking validation outside, well, it’s not inherently negative. Where it becomes a negative is where it gets in the way of us aknowledging our own value, our own contribution, our own capabilities.

Ladies, you know that if anyone is going to undervalue our contribution, unfortunately, it’s almost always us.

We need just need to get amazing and magnificent at recognizing what’s working. Of course, we want to continue to assess, find opportunities for improvement. I’m like a continuous improvement junkie. Especially when it comes to how I’m able to make a contribution, add value, how much more efficient can I be? How much more effective can I be?

And that doesn’t mean that because there’s still opportunity for improvement, there is not a real win there. And acknowledgement of that was fantastic. Right?

I know that was a really long answer, but it just the people pleasing is endemic.

And I think a part of it is that you always start already with the assumption that we’re not enough until someone else does. And I think that’s just backwards, right?

We are enough, the moment that we recognize that there is no yardstick to measure up against and any measurement we create, it’s self-imposed, it’s for ourselves, it’s to be even better aligned with that North Star and that higher intention and purpose and strategy we have for ourselves. But not because that’s where we’re getting our worth.

I know that’s a whole another deep conversation, but it’s just so such an important one for us professional women because I used to think that at a certain level that would go away, it does not go away.

I have a C-level clients, it simply does not go away. So whether you’re the intern or the board president that still crops up that notion of either not enough of something or too much something else, under it that we seem to be carrying with us, that somehow we’re not we’re not already knocking it out of the park, we’re not already measuring up, and that has got to stop. that is that step towards just owning our value.

Ivna 25:00 

I absolutely agree with everything that you said, I want to ask you, what do you think is a good way for professional women to be able to see if the if they can’t, if they never seen the value in what they do?

One of the things that I that I think of is, before they start something for them to, to define what a good job would look like for them. So that once they’ve done it, they know it’s a good job.

Because they’ve followed through with what they were initially defined as being a good job. Do you think that works?

Are there other tips and tricks to help people start to understand and not have to necessarily need that external validation acknowledgement from other people to understand that they’ve done well?

Asia 25:54 

I think what you said, though, is spot on. I referred to them as requirements. But knowing what the requirements are for that ultimate outcome is critical.

Because I’ll tell you, this is also something that makes us good delegators.

If you’re able to clarify and articulate what a good job looks like, whether it’s for yourself or for someone else, that makes you a fantastic delegator.

Where delegation falls down, it’s kind of in the same place that our own self-assessment falls down. It’s where we don’t have clarity about what was expected upfront. We don’t have a rubric.

If you want to call it that. We don’t have this standard set, we don’t have an idea in mind. The moment that the slightest thing is misaligned, we think the whole thing fell apart. Right?

Because we’re not seeing the entirety of the situation, the contribution, the outcome, etc. I actually think that is the number one, what you stated, and I would start there, and I would stay there in terms of have real clarity about what’s important and why.

And once you have that clarity about what’s important, and why to you, and what that would look like, then go ahead and consider your prior those primary stakeholders, right, so that the client or the prospective client or the senior executives that you’re working with, and what’s important to them, and why. And see what that would look like, in the work that you’re doing.

Definitely, we still have to add that strategic lens of understanding what others expect. But once you’ve kind of gathered that information, you understand what’s important to this group, what’s important to that set of stakeholders, what’s important to the enterprise, what’s important to your department, it makes it really, really straightforward to distinguish all those kinds of categories, you want to make sure that you’ve hit and checked off, so to speak. So that you’re not disconnected. Because you don’t also want to think, well, I just want to get it in, for you project management types out there, “I just want to get it in on time and under budget.”

But is it delivering on the promise and the priority and the need of the enterprise, it was on time and under budget, but the organization didn’t get the benefit they were expecting to get. It’s still right. We still take responsibility for that. And that’s why I say there’s that constant assessment and receiving that input.

But the bottom line is once you know what those requirements are, once you know what those expectations are, what those strategic priorities are with those critical success factors are, you are golden.

Because it doesn’t matter how anyone else really wants to tell you it up, because you provided the opportunity to address all of those.

I know that was a really complex answer. And I wish I could make it even simpler. But I don’t want to oversimplify.

Because as leaders and certainly, as I say leaders at any level, this is where I find that there’s often have a mismatch in expectations. And it’s simply because there’s some key stakeholder or perspective, whose need we didn’t take into account.

But once we took that need into account, we know what we’re there to deliver for the enterprise. That is our marker. That’s what we’re measuring up against.

And just as importantly, though, if we didn’t hit it, that doesn’t mean anything about us. It just means there’s an opportunity to fine tune for next time. And that I think is incredibly important, because having a failure plan is part of being incredibly successful, part of being wildly successful and confident and capable no matter what happens.

Because stuff’s gonna happen, who was ready for the pandemic a year ago? No one was ready. It didn’t matter how successful you were, but having a failure plan, and knowing what that’s going to look like, and that it’s not the end of the world that it means nothing about you, and that you’re going to approach it from this solution-oriented lens.

And just think about “Okay, now what do we have to tweak? That didn’t work. So now what do we have to tweak? And, and that’s getting closer, but not going there? So now what do we have to tweak?”

And again, just very solution oriented, it’s very kind of pragmatic, and there’s nothing personal.

And there’s nothing about beating yourself up. Because in your eyes, it wasn’t an A. And there’s none of that there simply about how do I better align with my North Star or that intention.

Ivna 30:51 

That’s the growth mindset as well. And one thing that came to mind when you were talking about this was that for women in particular, I think there’s one more ingredient that they need.

Like you said, to make sure that you’re aligned with those stakeholders, which is to promote what you’re doing.

Sometimes you might do a good job, and people might not see it, they literally might not notice it, because we haven’t done a good job in showing it, explaining the value of what we’re doing either beforehand, or after the fact.

And I think that’s something that men do very well, generally, but women just sit back and hope that somebody notices the value of what they provided, of what they’ve done without actually putting it into words.

Asia 31:48 

This is so important. This is so important. Here’s the thing, right.

It’s not about getting weird about finding ways to bring up, what you did, or anything like that.

One recommendation I make, because I do work with a lot of leaders or folks higher up in the organization. One way that you call attention to what you’ve done is by acknowledging your team and the contribution they’ve made.

And this works that every level, so you can be the intern on the team, acknowledging at the next public meeting, the work done by the other folks of the team and the opportunity to have been able to contribute.

Because people get weird when we’re looking for opportunities to say, “Well, how do I fit this in? Like? Well, did I tell you about what I did last week?”

No wonder we don’t because we think it’s going to be that way.

But let me tell you that if honoring other people’s contribution, it’s almost like it gives you as much honor as it gives them, if that makes sense.

I recommend that when there’s an opportunity, in terms of bringing attention to the type of work that you guys have done, and that you in particular have done.

Another one is where you’ve run into a particular challenge or roadblock. And there was a colleague or someone whose advice was valuable, and they were able to help you get over that, again, publicly acknowledging them.

And then as a result, being able to highlight, “and as a result of the additional assistance, or advice or perspective or expertise I got from this team or this person, this is what we were able to accomplish.”

You see, it’s very factual, but at the same time, you’re really letting the sun shine on everyone. I know that there are different ways to do this. And people may have different perspectives. But I really love that and find that women in particular, have an easier time approaching it from that perspective.

Because it’s interesting, we’re definitely more comfortable and again, generally, so forgive me if this doesn’t apply to you, but we see numbers, then we aren’t necessarily for our own self interest or best interest.

This is an opportunity to, instead of calling that wrong, working with the fact that many of us operate more naturally uncomfortable in that space and in that way.

I want to say something else about that.

The other thing I mentioned the big six career success levers. Relationships with your colleagues and your clients are also among the big six career success levers. Don’t underestimate the value of just taking an interest in somebody else’s set of concerns.

What’s going on with them, what’s keeping them up at night. What’s making them excited about coming into work, what’s working? What’s not?

Just being curious. Most of us are curious by nature, except we’ve been kind of taught to tamp that down, because curiosity killed the cat, and who knows how many other things like that. Right? Don’t, you know? Be curious, right?

Especially today, organizations want that innovative, curious mind that can look at things and have 17 intelligent questions about how it works, and what it looks like from this direction and that direction.

Now, you don’t necessarily have to articulate every question. But when you invite yourself and allow yourself to have that curiosity, then you’re naturally and more authentically wanting to engage with other people.

And when you engage with other people and take an interest in their set of concerns, it also opens the door for you sharing with them what’s going on in your world, your wins, what’s keeping you up at night, what you’re excited about?

I never suggest that people do this like a quid pro quo, simply that once we take that interest, that door becomes open. And then what you do with it from there, in order to share of yourself just comes more much more naturally.

Ivna 36:17 

Yes, three great ways of promoting one’s work in a win-win situation. You’re supporting others. And at the same time, you are talking about yourself, self-expression around what it is that you do, or don’t do, what you like, we don’t like, what your issues are, what your challenges are, and how you’ve overcome them. That was magnificent.

Thank you so much for all of these tips on requests. And as you were highlighting when an advisor or somebody gives you advice, and then using that to promote. I was thinking, well, not that first guy you talked to who gave you the advice to not pursue your goals.

I think those were amazing, amazing tips, and all of them essential for building one’s assertiveness in their careers. And that work. Absolutely. Thank you so much for that, is there anything else that you’d like to share?

Asia 37:28 

I actually have a couple of free resources on my website. I just want to invite any of you to feel free to go to bridgewellpro.com.

I don’t know if it’s under the Resources tab or training tab, but you can find a couple of free resources there that hopefully will be helpful.

But otherwise, just go out there. Stay connected to what’s important to you. Because there is no proxy for knowing who you are, and why things matter to you. Thank you, again, so much for having me here. And you guys feel free to connect on LinkedIn. You can find me there. Wonderful. Thank you so much. It’s my pleasure. Bye bye.