Here’s what this lawyer of the homeless has to say about advocating for others.
By Assertive Way
Below you will find key takeaways and an article based on interview and transcript for the interview.
Key Takeaways
- Know what you are advocating for by asking those you represent.
- Find the advocating style that works best for you.
- You don't have to be aggressive to be a good advocate.
- Be professional, diplomatic, respectful, and polite.
- Skills like advocating for yourself or others can be learned with assertiveness. Get started for free by clicking here.
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To effectively advocate for others like an attorney, use the right strategies, be polite, don’t be too difficult, default to professionalism, correct others in a non-judgmental way, focus on problem-solving, and find the style that works best for you through trial and error.
1:43 Why did you choose to advocate for homeless?
- I always knew as a young person that I wanted a job that was going to be meaningful. That I enjoyed going to go to going to work every day. That I that I felt had some greater purpose for me. And helping others was a big part of that.
- Beginning in undergraduate I did a lot of internships over the summer to try on different fields of what felt right. And legal services for nonprofit work, public interest law, was something that I immediately gravitated toward.
- That was a big part of why then decided to go to law school. And when I was in law school I specialized just in this kind of work. So, I kind of knew from early on that it’s what I wanted to do.
2:36 What’s your favorite part about your job?
- Working with the clients, that’s it then easy one.
- They’re just incredible, amazing, resilient people who have had to survive and endure really difficult life changes and circumstances, and to be able to do that and still come through it.
- They’re just impressive people and it’s a real privilege to be able to work with them, and to have even a small impact on their lives.
3:53 What were the challenges you faced when advocating for others?
- Bureaucracy is a big part of it and systems in place to make progress slow or to prevent success and having to work in these larger infrastructures to gradually get at the goal that you’re trying to reach can be very frustrating.
- The wait times for example are just horrendous. Imagine being disabled, being unable to work, and having to wait anywhere between two and sometimes six years to be able to get these benefits. How are you supposed to support yourself in the meantime? Meet your own needs?
- It feels like a very inhumane system and the length of time can be frustrating to try to guide a client through. To keep them engaged without feeling defeated is a big challenge.
- Something that’s a huge issue for people who work in direct services like I do is burnout.
- It’s burnout and vicarious trauma because you see so much suffering, you hear of so much suffering, and it’s very easy for that to impact your own mental health in a very direct way.
- One of the ways that it showed up for me for example was feeling just a lot of pressure like, “I’m the only one who can fix this problem” and, “If I don’t find a way to do it, no one will.”
- And putting all of that responsibility and pressure on myself became very harmful in a lot of ways.
- Because the problems my clients face are so big compared to now to the ones that I face in my life, what’s a few extra hours on the weekend or in the evening to help fix that problem.
- The constant pressure to try to do more, to try to help more, and blurring boundaries between your work life and your time at home can be very problematic.
- I found that it’s important to focus on self-care and to set appropriate boundaries.
- Because if you burn out you can’t help anybody else, so you can’t do your job effectively if you’re if you’re not in a good place.
Feeling just a lot of pressure like, “I’m the only one who can fix this problem” and, “If I don’t find a way to do it, no one will.” And putting all of that responsibility and pressure on myself became very harmful.
6:49 How do you mentally shift away from work to avoid burnout?
- First of all you have to celebrate the wins when you get them.
- Whenever you have a victory, you have to celebrate it, because the tendency is to feel defeated by the magnitude of the problem. The problems are so large and the small things I’m doing are never going to solve the bigger issues.
- You can just focus on the individual tasks and think what I need to do to address this today.
- To be discreet about it and when you have a success to celebrate it.
- You do as much as you can within the hours of your 9 to 5 or whatever your workday is. And then you have to mentally shift and set it aside. And then go about the rest of your day and the rest of your lives that you can come back to it fresh the next day.
- It’s been a little harder in the pandemic because we’re all working from home and so the line between work time and non-work time can be a little bit more fuzzy.
- When I was commuting to my job, I picked a point in my commute where, “OK I can think about work and what happened at work today up until this part of my drive.”
- And then at that point I have to switch over and start thinking about, ‘What am I going to do with the rest of my day, how am I going to interact with my kids or my partner, what do I want to do this evening, what kind of a person, what kind of a life at home do I want to have tonight,” to start shifting gears.
10:05 How do people respond when you advocate for others?
- In general, people are trying to do their jobs.
- Whatever your job function is in the bureaucracy in which you’re working in, they hold a small piece of a much larger policy or structure.
- While they may be individually sympathetic, they may not actually have all that much power or the discretion for them to be able to help in the way you want them to be able to help.
- So much of the work that I do, whether it’s advocating with social services agencies or with government agencies or with care providers that serve my client.
- It’s usually collaborative.
- I’m trying to utilize whatever strategy I can to help get the positive results that I want for my individual client. Whether that is needing to be a little assertive and pushy for something that they need or that they are entitled to while maintaining professional response or being polite.
- Because I’ve found that you often don’t get what you want by being overly difficult most of the time.
- When you’re being an advocate you have to find your own style of advocating and find out what strategies work for you and how you work with others to achieve the result that you’re looking for.
12:03 Do people respond differently to male vs. female advocates?
- Not directly, but there have been circumstances where people say, “Well I don’t want to talk to you, I want to talk to a lawyer.”
- Mostly it’s assumptions that I’m a social worker and not an attorney or, “You’re the attorney on this case?”
- It’s questioning your right to be there or your credibility as you know the advocate who’s supposed to be there. That’s what we typically see.
While they may be individually sympathetic, they may not actually have all that much power or the discretion for them to be able to help in the way you want them to be able to help.
13:24 How can female advocates earn the respect that they deserve?
- I correct them, but I try to do it in a non-judgmental way.
- Without trying to make them feel hostility or blame, because they think “I’m the attorney” and then I just try to stay all business and move on to the business at hand.
- In circumstances where I’ve had walk-in clients, we deal a lot with the public and in public clinics, and I’ve had walk-in a client who said, “I don’t want to talk to you. I want to talk to the male attorney.”
- It undermines your skill and your credibility. And you don’t have to take that. I say, “Well I’m the attorney that’s available to talk to you, so you can talk to me or you don’t have to receive services here.”
I correct them, but I try to do it in a non-judgmental way. Without trying to make them feel hostility or blame.
15:19 What do women do better vs. men when advocating for others?
- At the cornerstone of every good advocacy relationship is the relationship with your client, where you have to have a solid foundation with your client that’s based on trust and mutual respect.
- For me, that means I can’t fight for something for I can’t fight for someone unless I know what I’m fighting for.
- You need to listen carefully to your client and make sure that you really hear and understand what their goals are, what their values are, and what they’re seeking to get out of something.
- Otherwise, you’re advocating for the wrong things.
- While it’s always important to have at the root of it the prerequisite is your competence and knowledge in the area that you’re advocating for. That’s a given. On top of that you need to have good communication skills and a solid relationship with your client.
- For me, things that I do to build that trust is trying to be a good listener, to be empathetic, to show in my demeanor that I care and that I’m here to listen to them.
- Because so many of them feel marginalized in these systems.
- But they don’t often feel heard. So even small things like making eye contact, reflecting back what someone has said to you so that they know that you heard it. Those are easy things that you can do to try to build that relationship between yourself and your client.
You need to listen carefully to your client and make sure that you really hear and understand what their goals are, what their values are, and what they’re seeking to get out of something.
17:10 Do you find it challenging with some clients to earn that trust because they had such a difficult time?
- It’s not a given. That’s why you have to earn it.
- You have to show them that you’re not just another suit who’s just pushing a pile of papers from one side of their desks to another.
- That you’re going to treat them like a person. With some humanity. Treat them with dignity and respect.
- Remember that I work for them. They’re the ones in the driver’s seat. I’m a service provider.
- Part of my role is to not just advise them what their rights are, but to listen to them and to fight and to solve problems that are based on what their individual goals are.
I can’t fight for something for I can’t fight for someone unless I know what I’m fighting for.
18:26 How does the problem-solving for advocacy work for you?
- Most of the problem-solving that comes up is removing barriers for my clients.
- If there’s a problem like, “I don’t have access to income.” What things can we help you apply for individual for. Or “I have this problem?” What steps can we take to address that problem. Those are the types of being problem-solving issues that usually come up for me.
- Try to break things down into digestible tasks that you can tackle one at a time rather than feeling overwhelmed by “there’s so much that that needs to happen,” “there’s so many big problems that need to be fixed.”
How long does it take on average to go through the entire advocating process for one client?
- That can vary. Usually, the fastest turnaround we often will see is maybe 6 to 8 months.
- But I have many clients that I’ve been representing for five years or more. So, it can be a long investment time and very demoralizing for them.
20:16 Do you have other advice for professionals advocating for others?
- You have to work at finding the style of advocacy that’s that feels genuine and effective for you.
- Because there’s so many different ways to be a good advocate. And one style that works for one person you may not work for someone else.
- I find that I am not the most aggressive advocate.
- Not aggressive in terms of assertiveness. Aggressive in other ways, like that your traditional courtroom combative attorney.
- That doesn’t feel authentic to me. So, my strategies often tend to be more collaborative, more based on problem solving. And working with other people and trying to find a mutually beneficial outcome as opposed to just being very aggressive in my style. And that works for me but that may not work for everyone.
- So, spend some time thinking about what feels right for you and try out different strategies. That’s the best thing you can do.
I find that I am not the most aggressive advocate. Not aggressive in terms of assertiveness. Aggressive in other ways, like that your traditional courtroom combative attorney. That doesn’t feel authentic to me.
22:15 How did you find your advocacy style?
- Through trial and error mostly.
- In any kind of business relationship, you make a phone call to a professional contact, you ask them for something, you develop styles of communication within your team, outside of your team, and you just see what works.
- You figure out as you go through your training as a professional what works for you and what doesn’t. I rely a lot on interpersonal communication and trying to focus on collaboration.
- And default to professionalism as a way of giving myself that, “I deserve to be here, and I deserve to interact with you in this space at this level.”
Default to professionalism as a way of giving myself that, “I deserve to be here, and I deserve to interact with you in this space at this level.”
Want to learn how to advocate for others and for yourself by reaching out, dealing with criticism, and asking for what you want in a polite and respectful way? Then learn assertive communication skills! Get started with any of our free assertiveness resources here.
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“Whenever you have a victory, you have to celebrate it, because the tendency is to feel defeated by the magnitude of the problem. The problems are so large and the small things I’m doing are never going to solve the bigger issues.” – Dorian Morello
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