INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT: Hi, Tiffany. Welcome to our podcast.
And thank you for joining us today.
Thank you for having me.
I’m excited to be here.
Yeah, we were just talking about almost.
I don’t know if it was by chance or how do they call it, serendipity.
Serendipity.
Serendipity.
I only know because of the movie.
Maybe it was serendipity that brought us together because you were looking for an opportunity to share some of your lessons and I was searching for someone to bring to share their lessons.
So here we are.
And for the audience to know a little bit about you, you’re currently the deputy commissioner at the Virginia Department of Health.
You’ve been there for a little bit.
So you have an MBA, you have a doctor of law as well.
And you’ve been trying, you’ve tried out different industries.
I’ve seen as well.
You’ve now you’re in the Department of Health, but I’ve seen that you’ve been in Capital One and other companies.
So I’m excited to talk to you today.
And one of the things that I love talking about and I think it’s something that a lot of us experience at some point in time is this element of respect.
We want to make sure that we have self-respect and that we feel respected by other people.
So how does that look like for you?
What makes you find your own self-respect and make sure that you get the respect from other people that you deserve?
Interesting, because I don’t think I’ve ever had an issue with self-respect.
I grew up in a house full of women, strong women.
My mom was, you know, you talk about my career kind of different industries.
When I was young, my mom, she was she would hate for me to say this.
She’s now passed, but I used to tease her because she was 19 when she had me.
And she always used to say, I was 20, Tiffany.
Her birthday was in was in July.
Mine was in May.
And I would say, Mom, you were technically a teenage mom, but she was a great mom.
Like, I never doubted her love for me.
She always put me first.
So when I was younger, my mom was working at a convenience store.
She worked in a lingerie store.
She became an office manager.
She she studied child development at one point because she loved children.
She studied child development and was my sister’s adopted.
My mother adopted every kid that she saw in the world.
You know, I’d have an instant cousin or sibling, whatever you want to say.
And then she became an office manager, which I think was probably one of the higher positions, so to speak.
And then she eventually she became a nurse and she ended up actually leaving nursing to go back to be an office manager just because of the money.
And she had kids, so she had to, you know, kind of weigh those options.
But she was always a strong person in every position.
I saw her in PC commanded respect.
There was no kind of her having a fight for it.
She carried herself in a way that just commanded that my grandmother was the same way she was a nurse my whole life.
And I would visit her floor and people would say, you’re Miss Ford’s, you know, granddaughter.
And, you know, there was always a sense of my family kind of many.
I have a family full of women, like I say, my grandmother had sisters and we’re in the same town that they grew up in.
So I’ve always had that sense of respect.
I think when I will say when I got into my career, I think I was a little spoiled.
I will say, you know, when you grow up with that many strong women and influences around you, you kind of take it for granted.
I didn’t have the struggle of having to find a mentor, having to find people that I could emulate.
They were right there.
But when I got out into the world, I realized how lucky I was.
And then I had the I know this isn’t the same thing, but the imposter syndrome.
I started saying, am I worthy of respect?
You know, especially if you climb at the pace, if you look at my trajectory, I climbed really kind of fast.
And so some of that was do I deserve the respect?
Just, you know, I didn’t think about the human part of it.
And I probably should have given myself more grace like every human deserves respect.
I was really hard on myself because I knew I had climbed kind of fast in my career and a lot of spaces.
Now I’m still the youngest.
But I have people that are coming under me that are now younger.
But for a lot of my time, I was young, too.
I was always the youngest person in these areas.
So then you deal with that level of respect.
You know, you’re working with somebody who’s worked 30 years versus maybe I’ve been a director two years.
And so that was hard. So what I had to do in order to kind of actually say fortify the, you know, the self respect that I had was really lean into the fact that.
I was really passionate about the things that I was involved in.
I didn’t get into certain industries or careers just for the sake of having a title by my name.
I really saw how I could be a value and add to either the people that I supervised or the industries that I was in.
And so I leaned on that.
And I think the other thing that kind of made me see the value in myself, the respect for myself, was that I’m always a curious person.
I don’t assume I know everything.
The thing that was kind of my kryptonite in that moment, that self doubt also fortified me because I was not afraid to ask questions because I want it to be as good as I want it to be.
So, you know what, ask questions.
The folks that I felt had earned their spot, so to speak. I made sure that I made them my friends.
I should say, working friends.
And I made sure that I let them know that I was interested in what they were doing.
I was always saying, I remember my last job before I got this job, my supervisor started, let’s say I started in November, he started in January of that next year.
And I remember our first one-on-one, he’s still a person that I talked to because now I do the same job that he did at another agency.
And I remember saying, he said, you know, I don’t even know if he asked me what I wanted to do.
I might have told him that’s how a little bold I am.
I was like, so yeah, this is my plan.
I’m going to be you.
You know, eventually I’m going to do what you do.
So, these are the areas that I know I’m not great at or I don’t have the most experience because at that time hadn’t really overseen finance or anything.
So, I’m going to need you to help me because he was a CPA.
I was like, I’m going to need you to help me get there.
And he always remembers, he’s like, Tiffany, you were just like, you came at me.
And I said, yes, I wanted to, you know, I knew that I had the makings of some kind of leader, especially over all the different areas because I oversee IT, finance, human resources, and procurement.
And I knew that I could do that and do that well.
And so, I said, but I didn’t believe enough in my resume.
So, I said, I need to get this last piece.
And so, I kind of became his little shadow. And I would say, hey, you know, is there an opportunity for me to be in that meeting? Is there an opportunity for me to, you know, sit, you know, with you and talk about, you know, this financial aspect?
So, I think you earn respect or you gain respect for yourself by digging into your fear sometimes or your insecurity and making sure that you are, you know, just setting yourself up for success.
I think sometimes people get stalled by fear.
And I’ll give you an example close to home.
My son had his first semester in college and he didn’t do well.
And I remember going to him before we found out he didn’t do really well.
And him and saying, hey, Sherrod, what are your grades? And he said, and I said, so have you looked?
He said, no. I said, well, what are we afraid of? If we know what we’re dealing with, we can go forward. And he did not want to do that.
So the lesson I have that I wish I could pass on to him is to face your fear, to dig in and kind of earn your stripes or your respect to yourself.
I know I went on a tangent, but you got to redirect me.
Yeah, so that’s great. It’s really about understanding where those fears are, where the opportunity is.
You exposed yourself because you realized that there was someone there who was able to already earn the respect of others.
And instead of going to the side or hiding or pretending that you knew everything, you leaned on to that person.
And you were you said right from the front and from the get go, hey, I’m going to need your help.
And and knowing that that person was going to be able to help you.
Learn the skills that you needed, but also use that passion that you had to, I think, also help get people on your side.
I think people are very open to generally support you throughout that and help you out and teach you a few things if you if you show up with that passion.
And that seems like it’s what you did. Did you ever feel disrespected in that process?
It wasn’t in that job. I will say, you know, acclimating to this job has been been probably the hardest challenge.
I always tell people I never I’ve never felt more black or more female than this position.
I’m not saying I was one of those people who didn’t see color or thought people didn’t see color.
But I didn’t realize how lucky I was that that that hadn’t been my experience or at least I hadn’t been cognizant of it as a barrier.
And then, you know, I’m 42. That’s pretty young to be a deputy commissioner.
I think I may be the first black deputy commissioner at my agency, which is a really big agency in the state.
And I’m usually because our leadership fluctuates. I’m usually the only female on the leadership team.
Now we do have a female leader. So that’s awesome. And she’s she’s really great. But for a while was just me.
And there have been moments where it there has been the moments of intentional disrespect and there have been moments of unintentional disrespect.
Let’s let’s go there. I want to I want to hear this out because as like you said, it’s it’s hard to be a woman in a place where there aren’t that many women and especially a woman of color.
And having felt that, you know, what did that look like for you?
I had one of my co-workers yell at me. He yelled.
He raised his voice. And I would say yelling sounds like he’s doing.
But there was a moment where he did raise his voice. He’s he’s older than me. So that, you know, I don’t know if it’s a cultural thing.
I don’t know what it is, but I have had had to get used to the fact that I will have to meet older people where they are.
I can’t say, well, that’s that he reminds me of my aunt Lily or, you know, because that’s not going to get me anywhere.
And I will then feel like I’m suppressing real feelings that are earned.
So I’ve learned to kind of make sure that I use my voice.
And in that particular instance, when we were having a back and forth, I remember saying to him, why are you yelling?
I got really kind of steel in that moment. I didn’t try to meet him, you know, in terms of the volume.
And I said, what what’s happening here? And that calmed him down immediately.
All right. Yeah, I didn’t know it was going to work in the moment.
I’m I was just seriously trying to like, how do you deescalate, you know, this moment?
Because because where where would it have gone if I didn’t? That was the other thing.
And it’s interesting. I was talking to someone, one of my coworkers today, because I had that same incident with that same coworker happen again.
You know, he’s just a very passionate person about his the people that he supports or that report to him.
And so I was talking to another coworker who happens.
She’s a woman, obviously, she and we both had the same kind of aha moment.
She’s a little bit older than me, but she has been, you know, working for a long time.
And even though she is not a woman of color, she’s a woman.
And she recognized she says it is hard to know what to do in those moments because you become acutely aware of how you will be perceived if you meet that that volume.
And I never want to. And I hate it. I hate that we have to think about this double time, especially from when it comes to working in a male dominated, whatever.
You have to think I will come across as erratic or hysterical or, you know, all of the things for me is the angry black woman.
I don’t, you know, I don’t see myself as that. I don’t want to be mislabeled as that.
And so I think a thousand times before I respond, I usually respond quieter. It’s effective. But, you know, you do have to find the way to kind of take the air out of the balloon, so to speak, in those moments.
I think the question I want to go back and make sure I understand because I think you said, how do you earn respect.
So you mentioned that there were two situations where you felt disrespected one was directly someone like intentionally trying to disrespect you.
One was unintentional but still felt like disrespect.
That happens so much and I’m sure anybody who’s listening to this can relate, especially like I said going back to being a woman being a woman of color.
Sometimes you will be the expert and people will go around you to the man or white man usually that is sitting beside you.
And in my case, I’m usually the only expert or I am the most senior expert.
And this has, you know, this happens and then you have to figure out a way you have to choose your battles, because sometimes especially like our team is fairly small.
So, and like I said, I’m usually the only woman.
So, if I say something, it echoes.
And if I’m trying to redirect something, no matter how soft I do it.
You know, it is very powerful in the moment. And so when I, when I, when I have those moments of even unintentional disrespect, I have to think about what is my end goal.
And sometimes I do it when we’re at the table, and I figure out how I’m gonna, you know, triangulate folks and you know bring them back, or sometimes I do things where I will something will happen in a meeting that I don’t like and I will go to
Maybe on their own, and just even sometimes I’ll just get feedback. How did that look to you or when that person said that, like, you know, what are you thinking, and sometimes they won’t see it and sometimes they will, and they’ll say well we were, I was waiting for you.
So those are the harder moments. I think the intentional disrespect is one that you, you know that you can kind of meet head on, you feel almost righteousness in that moment. When it’s unintentional, you really have to think hard about how you approach it.
Because then, in this kind of environment sometimes you can become the unintentional bad guy, just by calling out the thing.
I don’t, I would not say don’t do that though. I mean,
there have been moments, the moments that I beat myself up is when I’m quiet. The moments that I second guess myself is when I’m quiet.
I’ve had a situation where I had a.
I was working as a director, and I was on the board.
And one of the board members was very handsy.
And at the time, I mentioned earlier I have two kids, they were very young.
They’re my kids but they’re my niece and nephew so I’m raising them.
We had just kind of lost my mom and my grandmother who was like our unit.
So, you know, years ago if you had said, if that happens you have that I’m going to quit, because, you know, my mother and grandma were right there and I could have figured out how to pay for myself and yeah, but now I have these two children.
So I went through this situation which is really real you know how you hear that stuff on TV and then it happens to you. And you’re like, I don’t really know how to react.
And so the thing that I had to do was, um, I found another job, I mean it was that it was one of those things where I said okay I can’t be here anymore. I have to make a living.
So, you know, the first person was in the legal community and the legal community here is very small.
And I was a little nervous about if I needed to make money.
And you know if I ever wanted to go practice law in Richmond what that would look like, and I was very nervous. So I remember finding, you know, going in saying okay I’m on my search to find a new job.
And that is the regret that I have that I did not speak up or feel that I could.
So I look back at that situation. And I’m not saying that I was right.
Because obviously, I don’t feel like it was the who I would want to be. But I will say that that situation gave me so much more compassion for folks that don’t necessarily handle it in the way that we want you know, people on you know our TV heroes who stand up
and then end up you know, winning the day.
Because before if you had asked me I’m like, well go fight for your rights and in that moment. I just did not feel like I could so that gave me a lot more sympathy everything all of that stuff and compassion for folks who don’t feel like they have those that many choices.
But I will say it is a regret that I have had.
What is it now, probably for like at least five years of just knowing that, oh, I wish I could have done something different.
Yeah, I mean thank you for sharing that it’s it’s incredibly hard I haven’t spoken up several times when when I wish I had in.
And the problem is it’s like you said it’s it’s incredibly risky it feels risky and often it’s hard even to know what to do and you know the thing is we were on title to make mistakes.
And it’s such a natural human thing is and we’re entitled to not be perfect in the way we say things either and still be treated with dignity and respect.
But the problem is in those instances, we get a feeling that we can’t even, we can’t make those mistakes because they’re not going to be accepted in the same way as if someone else does.
You probably felt a lot of us feel like there’s nowhere to go like there’s no, there’s no support. There’s nothing that you could say that will be seen positively.
I mean, I will just say that person would put his hands on my shoulder.
And then I remember thinking, okay, because it was in a room, it was in a board meeting he would usually come up to me towards the end of the board meeting.
And we, you know, he was respected in the legal community.
And so that was his connection with me oh I heard you you know, went to law school, yada yada.
I never had an interest in really doing that that’s kind of like my backup plan just in case I really need to hang my shingle or something I’ll go do that.
But, um, so we had that little camaraderie and then I know it’s like he kept, I’m not a touchy feely person, either. So it was an immediate kind of like okay what’s going on here.
And then, so I started doing this thing each, each meeting, I would figure out how I could put more distance. So as soon as the meeting is over I’m leaving.
You know, unless like my boss calls me and says hey Tiffany I need additional information about this thing we talked about. But other than that, okay, I have a reason to be out of here I don’t need to be in here.
The last straw for me, and each time he would figure out, you know, sometimes that wouldn’t have to go through it and sometimes he would still figure out, you know, and I want to say the instances up until this last instance because there was a more defining one were very just like the shoulder stuff.
Um, but the last one I remember I got out of the, um, the room, and was going down the hall to my office. He followed me there was it wasn’t like a, like one of those scary moments it really wasn’t that I don’t want to paint it like some, you know, situation like
or anything like that. But he made a point to come up to me in the hallway which you just had never happened before, and put his arm around me and then his hand ended up on my butt.
And that was like whoa, we’ve gone there.
And so that was the straw for me. And I remember, I felt so much shame, because I worked with a team and it was this older woman. And she, I think she must have saw it, because she had strong feelings about it too.
And she, she wanted me to go do something she she wanted to go beat him up herself.
And I was just like, no, no, like, we’re not going to win like there’s no winning. And I’ll tell you I went and talked to at the time our legal counsel he and I, he was a year ahead of me, and he, we had gone to law school together.
We weren’t friends but you know we knew we knew each other. By the time we got the job there. And he, so I had said jokingly to him, because I really didn’t know how to process it.
And I probably process a lot too much through humor. And I remember saying can you believe what he did.
So, you know, I’m telling him this story. And so we chuckle about it. And he’s a good dude so I want to be clear like he’s not the villain here, but he came back to me the next day, very, like, business.
And he said, Look, if that happened. That’s a big deal.
And if that happened, I need to report it.
And I was just like, you know, no, because I’m telling you, it just, I could be totally wrong but I did not see myself as normal Ray, you know, getting getting a kind of justice out of this, especially you know, I don’t, I am in the south.
I am a black woman, it is amazing the trajectory that I have had. But I’m also really aware of how fragile that can be.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was it was a lot and so yeah that’s one of those incidents that I don’t know how how I should have handled it but I’ve never felt 100% comfortable with the way that I did.
If at any point you need to pause like take some time to think all good we’ll all edit that out afterwards so you may want to repeat something feel free to do so. Okay.
I’ll just, I’ll start by welcoming you, and then we’ll start, we’ll start there. All right, sounds good.
All right.
Hi Tiffany, welcome to our podcast and thank you for joining us today.
Thank you for having me I’m excited to be here.
It’s not something easy to handle. Yeah, and especially when, again, it’s, it’s with someone with with more power but I was also imagining that situation.
Where does it this, you have a meeting that you have to go, let’s say weekly or monthly or bimonthly or quarterly or whatever it is the frequency, and you know that every time you go to this meeting you’re gonna have to deal with this.
And going to that meeting is uncomfortable and knowing we’re figuring out where are you going to sit, having to leave and not being able to do network which we know is so important for career advancement, and having all these things on top of the content
of the meeting and what you have to do and what you’re delivering all these other things that are really for self preservation.
Constantly, like, where am I safe here in this room.
What do I say, where do I move, how do I move it. How do I avoid this uncomfortable situation how to stay safe.
That’s a lot to deal with.
On top of the work that has to be done. Yeah, of handling your own career and perceptions around your personal brand.
To have that constant issue.
You just don’t it’s not clear how to resolve. Well you know what was the other thing that made it even difficult is that he wasn’t a villain, like he was not.
There was nothing you could say he never was mean to me. He was never anything that never sarcastic anything. He was always nice.
And I couldn’t, you know, so I felt, I don’t want to say I don’t, I don’t know what I felt but it was really hard to square his behavior with his face like his, his, his words.
And that was hard but you’re right it was every meeting I remember saying okay.
I think we’re done.
I can go.
Or, you know, I grant my stuff. All right, you know my boss I say hey I’ll see you, I’ll circle back with you. You know, and so it was, it was tough but it was a lesson, we’ll say that I don’t think at this moment, and especially like I had so much at stake,
like I said my kids were really young I had one kid in private school.
Just a lot going on.
And now I’m not saying that everything’s perfect but I think I’m just a different person more seasoned to in terms of how I would handle that.
Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, with with time and like you said you came from a family of strong women. So, you, you probably learned to apply a lot of that strength into different new situations that appear in, and, and there’s also this element of lessons
you’re learning, you’re reflecting on past experiences, maybe what you could have done differently.
And obviously that’s going to apply to your your, you know, hopefully you won’t have that situation but there’s always situations where there’s this question, should I speak up or not.
And if I do speak up, what should I say. Yeah.
Yeah, inevitably going to happen.
It is interesting when I first got to this job.
And going back, I think I mentioned imposter syndrome.
I won’t say I wasn’t recruited recruited like nobody came out of, you know, like, you know, out of the ether of LinkedIn and said Tiffany you’d be perfect for this position.
I remember, I was, I was, I knew I needed to elevate myself I was, I was, you know, working as a kind of a process improvement person at my last job, doing things within the admin, you know, areas.
And I said, man, I could really be the decision maker, and I had kind of got a little just disgruntled with the fact that in that situation I was on a leadership team, because we were still like leadership we were directors.
And it was me and another woman, she was a white female. And, but sometimes she wasn’t even at meetings and not because she was bad. I’m just saying sometimes it was just me by myself at this meeting with like all of these white guys and my boss is a white guy.
And even, you know, my boss and I would have like some of the most vulnerable conversations about race about gender, you know, he was very open to like, I don’t know, and all of that stuff, but he’s still kind of deferred to the white guys on the team.
And I remember just getting so frustrated. And I just said, I just can’t. I can’t.
I don’t want to teach that part anymore I don’t want to educate anymore I don’t want to, you know, do this I remember seeing this job come up on LinkedIn.
We were on a meeting I don’t remember what meeting it was but I was with another coworker not a direct report or anything like that she was in another department she had been on my interview panel when I applied for this job that I mean that other job that I was in.
And so she had become kind of like a mentor she was towards the end of her career was about to retire. And she knew I was frustrated and she was a woman of color so she’s gone through it right.
And I reached out to her and I said, Hey, look at this. I sent her like probably like a message or something look at this job description. Do you think I can do it. And she said, go for it.
And so I applied, and then this is the first time I actually used a networking thing because she happened to know the commissioner at that agency. So I said, Hey, would you be willing to, you know, send him an email and just kind of introduce me, and she did.
And then I went through their recruiting process, because they had hired a private recruiter to go through like the first thing and I got through that. And then I got the job.
When I got the job. I was told, because I’m big on communication, I love people.
That was one of the things that you know really shown through the interview, but I kid you not I get in that office, and this is in the almost a thick of code like 2021.
And so that first week I get there. And I went and you know because I was at home prior to that working from home.
So I went and got me a wardrobe, and I was ready to go back to the office so excited I get there no one’s there.
And then they come in on Wednesdays, when they have like the team meetings. So, you can imagine I have like this corner office, I’m in charge of all of these things.
I’m like oh my god you have a long here.
Can I do it.
You know, am I going to mess this up. Was this the wrong time to make this move.
I really that that first, I would say, three months.
Because nobody was there so I was really alone with my thoughts.
Like they would come in sometimes and just be me and I’m like this is a lot. Oh gosh.
So, eventually, going back to what we talked about with the respect thing. It really became a thing of digging in being vulnerable, I didn’t tell people and you know as oversaw procurement I know procurement, so listen to me.
I didn’t go to HR said hey I was HR director. Listen to me.
I went in there and say hey how can I help.
How can I be a resource for you. What do you need.
If a problem came up.
I would usually allow them to give me their answer I might, you know, offer a little bit of something but you are the expert, and I’m going to let you be the expert.
If I really see a red flag, I’m going to call attention to it but in the most, you know, gracious way I can because I’m never trying to undermine you in your expertise.
The first year was a first year.
First, first year and a half I would say, I had to do a termination.
And that was hard because it was, it was so interesting, I came in there and this person was in charge of, you know, I’m not going to say the thing but she was in charge of a big department.
And so I remember, and people laugh at me because my stuff is really instinctual right. So, the reason that I felt like this person.
There might be something there was kind of, it started as a superficial thing. I would go to her and again she’s the expert, and she would giggle when we’re talking, and I’m trying to get information from her.
She was always this like leaning in on the interpersonal giggling when I would ask her for you know information or laughing out right.
And so I remember saying I’m not getting answers from her.
I know she’s overwhelmed because the job itself is really big but she’s like missing deadlines, and she would miss deadlines and the people that she would disappoint would still take up for her.
So, I remember going to somebody saying hey, I have this feeling about this person. I think I want to put them on a pill. And they say if she leaves this place will crumble. So I was like, Okay, that’s scary.
So I did end up, I let that go a little bit probably like a month past, but I just couldn’t not do something because I think you know when you manage people you know you better.
You better pay attention and and start documenting so that you can at least have a track record even if you end up being wrong and they end up being the best thing since life for it.
So I went to HR and I said hey, I want to put on a PIP. These are the things I went to her and said I want to help you. And this is the best way that I can see to help you. So we’re going to put you on a PIP with an improvement plan, performance improvement plan.
And we did. And then, a lot of things happen. A lot of things blew up.
And I ended up, you know, terminating her.
But that’s a good example of I’m coming into this situation. I’m unsure of myself, the only real skill skills I have I mean because I can’t do the day to day work. That’s the other thing at my level, or when you become a director.
You are in the weeds and you have to be okay with that and oftentimes if you’re not in the weeds.
If you’re any kind of decent person, I’m sorry, this is my personal, my personal feelings, you want to be in the weeds and when you can’t be in the weeds and help it kind of is one of those things where you’re like, okay, and it takes you a little while to adjust to that.
And when you adjust, you have to figure out how to really get the best you can out of people without causing them anxiety. So that’s my whole thing is how can I get the best out of you my direct report without putting all the anxiousness that I feel about not being able to do the thing.
And it’s a really delicate balance. But I’m going back to what I was saying I came in there, I leaned into the skills that I had which was to be a support to trust my instincts, and to move as necessary.
And that has helped me.
The more I lean into what I’m good at which is communication which is supporting people, which is making sure that they have what they need, and being vulnerable when necessary I believe in the power of vulnerability.
I’ll be honest I don’t trust people who think who say they have it all together.
Because I know we as humans don’t. So I’m always like okay, what’s your thing. What’s the thing that you start with that scares you the most. I just need to know that you have a thing maybe I don’t need to know what it is.
And then I can I can work with you. Um, but I think that’s, that’s what I’m good at. So once I kind of leaned into what I was good at that alleviated like my imposter syndrome, but it took a minute, it took a minute and sometimes it’s still there
like I don’t want anybody to think that it is 100% resolve that it.
I don’t think I was talking to somebody actually the recruiter who recruited me for this job who was my recruiter for this job I should say.
The other day.
And I was, you know, in that moment when I’m like man I mean I’ve done a lot.
But you know you don’t, you don’t really like list out all the things that you’ve done so you forget about them. And so days just feel like a lot.
And so I was like, man, I don’t know.
It’s been almost two years, and I cut out for this because she’s worked a lot to she’s worked in a lot of industries and been leaders in a lot of industries I’m always looking for that person to say okay it’ll be okay.
And she told me she’s like, if you, you know, you’re always, she said to me you’re always going to be that person that’s expecting perfection of yourself so you kind of have to understand that that’s who you are.
But you also have to understand it is your job to mitigate that.
Because if you don’t, you will drive yourself crazy. You said three really great things you shared that this last one was when you felt imposter syndrome.
You, you went to talk to someone, you found someone to actually ask for an opinion, because often if we stay in our heads, and within our own little self talk you said at some point you mentioned you ran in this office and the ones that was there is just you
And you start to overthink things. And that’s a huge, huge problem if if we have imposter syndrome, or if we just internalize things and we don’t externalize it and we don’t share and get a perspective from someone else knows us who doesn’t know us was outside of the context
view of the situation. I think that was very powerful what you did. And then the other thing you said was, and I never heard this before.
You said that you were looking at how the anxiety generated by your imposter syndrome you’re making sure that that did not impact your team, they didn’t not pass on that anxiety. I thought that was those genius to think that way.
I never heard anyone say that before, because we’re often thinking oh my imposter syndrome my imposter syndrome but not like, hey, how is my imposter syndrome affecting my team.
And I think that’s a motivation as well to, to find ways to overcome it, or at least not focus as much in your case, it was through vulnerability and seeking support with with your teams which is excellent but at the same time you did what you had to do.
And you made your hard decisions.
You know everything was happening you were still being, you know, doing the leadership activities that you had to do but you were making sure that you were leaning in on the expertise of the team.